SPP Archaeology session 1

Archaeology - Ethics of Archaeology - 1st February 7:30 Sign up page
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Date: Friday 1st February Time: 7:30 to approx. 8:15 Venue: Ruins Max: 10 Organiser: Marsbar9 Schomer Overview: In this session we will look at the Ethics of Archaeology: digging up bodies which have been buried 5, 10, 20, 50 years ago is pretty much unacceptable in the UK (although normal for a variety of reasons in some other countries), whereas digging up 3000-year-old bodies is fine (although there are still legal restrictions). Where is the dividing line, and why is there a dividing line? Come along to discuss... Some links relating to discussion within this session A page on excavation techniques for human remains Advice for those who find archaeological items	1 Marsbar9 Schomer 2 Rowan 3 Vibia- try and stop me! ]:-) 4 Please edit to add your name 5 Please edit to add your name 6 Please edit to add your name 7 Please edit to add your name
Notes from the event
You: The ethics of Archaeology Vibia Schomer: ah, yes You: What do you reckon then? Where is the "dividing line" between good and bad? Vibia Schomer: well it sepends on the context of it..... (need to be careful as context in archaeology can meane layers!) Rowan SParker arrives You: We were just saying, where is the dividing line between good and bad in archaeology? What is acceptable? You: I think I agree with Vibia in that it depends on the context of the site Rowan SParker: in what way, Mars? Vibia Schomer: well just normal digging is fine- i mean the remains are destroyed really but good records are kept of it all for reference You: Well.... I think the time frame has a large impact You: So if it is recent, we will probably know a lot about it, and there is no need to go digging it up (yet) Vibia Schomer: although bodies are a different matter Rowan SParker: 'normal digging' perhaps doesn't have to mean destruction of human remains? Vibia Schomer: normal digging as in pots, houses, etc You: Graves is a different matter I guess Vibia Schomer: it is You: However, if you come across them, I guess you can't help ubt research it then? Rowan SParker: but I don't mean to contradict but human remains aren't always predictable where they turn up Vibia Schomer: there are strict regulations as to what you can and can't do Rowan SParker: for example slaves may be buried by the side of roads Vibia Schomer: and they cannot be moved unless they are in danger I think Rowan SParker: in human history, and prehistory, I think maybe only a minority of people have been 'buried' in neatly demarcated graveyards You: So where the bodies are depends on what can be done then? Vibia Schomer: yes- well quite a few people were buried in certain area, but some were just 'randomly' buried You: And I agree Rowan, there are lots of bodies out there in unmarked graves You: What about land owners - if they find a body on their land, what should they do? Vibia Schomer: Unsure on that one... I tihnk archaeologists have to be called in for further investigation Rowan SParker: I was more trying to get to the notions of 'context of site' and what is 'normal digging' - to examine 2 very interesting points you each brought in You: And if they have the wrong view - might some of them claim the finds as theirs? Vibia Schomer: well with site context- I was on about context layers! :) and normal digging I regard as normal excavation, not including the remains of bodies Rowan SParker: actually I know I keep speaking out of sync - but if a landowner finds human remains then first step is to call the police and it is up to them to decide whether to turn it over to archaaeologiests... You: I guess some remains could be "suspicious" Vibia Schomer: Ah- yes I missed out the police! :) Rowan SParker: yes if a body is found in a peat bog it is impossible for the layperson at first glance to tell if it is very recent or very old Rowan SParker: I forget the name is it 'Utzi' the one in the Alps? Rowan SParker: he is the oldest well preserved peat bog body but so well preserved that the police still were the first port of call Vibia Schomer: it is really hard for non specilaists to date bodies- did you see Time Team the other week on the island in scotland?? Rowan SParker: yes Vibia excellent Vibia Schomer: Oetzi was found in mountains I thought Rowan SParker: Yes yes but in a peat bog in the mountains You: Did they date Otzi? Vibia Schomer: In Time Team they found an amazingly well preserved body on there- if you saw it you would think it was more medieval or newer rather then preiron age Vibia Schomer: Otzi- hang on ill just check in my book Rowan SParker: yes last term I did an archaeology evening class Rowan SParker: most of it wasn't very interesting but the best session was about the preservation of human remains Rowan SParker: what is really key is not age but what kind of material they are put in and what happens more or less immediately that might aid preservation - or not Vibia Schomer: 4000 years old You: wow Rowan SParker: wow wow Vibia Schomer: ah- no here we go- Vibia Schomer: got better dates now You: and what did they do with he/she afterwards? Rowan SParker: sorry to ask Vibia but does your book give a comparison with 'Pete Marsh' the one they found in Cheshire Vibia Schomer: 5350-5100 years ago Rowan SParker: oh I know that Mars! gosh better and better Vibia You: wow - even older! Rowan SParker: Utzi was quarrelled over a lot - which side of the border was he on Vibia Schomer: nope- its just a general archaeology of the world book Rowan SParker: I think in the end Italy won and he is in a museum there I saw some pix Vibia Schomer: Otzi was eventailly discovered to be 91m inside of + Italy You: Oh wow... Vibia Schomer: but it was thought he was originally in Austria but moved due to glacial movement Rowan SParker: I think the hiker who found him thought he could be a recent death Rowan SParker: wow Vibia Vibia Schomer: so there was a masive argument Rowan SParker: well I did go to a class on it quite recently! Mars was AFK for a few minutes Vibia Schomer: I've watched loads of programmes on Otzi! Rowan SParker: your book sounds good Vibia Vibia Schomer: its is.... Vibia Schomer: its really good Rowan SParker: I put up the title on the wiki page for the session last night Rowan SParker: but I think I might have to get it Vibia Schomer: its also got about archaeologists too Vibia Schomer: founders of archaeology and significant archaeologists Vibia Schomer: and the major places in the world Rowan SParker: yes some of our classes were about that Rowan SParker: but the teacher wasn't very interesting much of the time - very slow and ponderous Vibia Schomer: eg. Lascaux, Mount Li, Pompeii, Technotitlan, etc Vibia Schomer: aww.... that wont help Rowan SParker: Yes he said that somewhere near Pompei is even better to see than Pompeii Vibia Schomer: Herculaneum Rowan SParker: the name is on the tip of my tongue but the TV is blaring in the background here Rowan SParker: YES thank you Vibia Schomer: :p Rowan SParker: he says that is the place to go to Vibia Schomer: I know quite a bit about them! :p Vibia Schomer: I love the Romans you see! :) Rowan SParker: yes I do agree Vibia Schomer: What they did was amazing Rowan SParker: have you been to Hadrians Wall Vibia Schomer: no- I'm going there later this year though! :) Rowan SParker: oh great. Vibia Schomer: Going to go to Vindolanda too! Rowan SParker: I only went quite recently and thought it superb Vibia Schomer: I'm rather looking forward to going really Rowan SParker: great. Vibia Schomer: should be really interesting Rowan SParker: I don't think I know a lot now I come to think about it about the Romans and death Vibia Schomer: I've gt a book with some info in it! :p Rowan SParker: Maybe it was cremation in urns? Vibia Schomer: ill just get it Rowan SParker: not much left Rowan SParker: ok I will wait Vibia Schomer: got it Vibia Schomer: -one of a few! :p Vibia Schomer: its my ancient rome book Rowan SParker: terrific Vibia Schomer: ill just find the info on it Rowan SParker: sure Mars returns You: Sorry about that You: Where are we up to? Rowan SParker: it's OK can you see the hsitory Vibia Schomer: romans and death You: ye :-) You: ooh Vibia Schomer: Cremation was very popular You: What did they do with the ashes? Vibia Schomer: and the ahes were mixed with water or wine in the urns Rowan SParker: OK You: They didn't drink it did they? Rowan SParker: as we don't have much time .... Vibia Schomer: they had marble and glass urns too Vibia Schomer: dont think so Vibia Schomer: :p Rowan SParker: but thanks Vibia as I did want to know that.... Rowan SParker: let's spend 5 mins on ethics Vibia Schomer: They had processiosn through the towns with the dead Vibia Schomer: oh and funeral games Vibia Schomer: ie. gladiators Rowan SParker: that is still a tradition in some Mediterranean countries - the processions Rowan SParker: I think we could go back to Mars' earlier question... Vibia Schomer: yes... indeed You: Well, back to ethics and the finding of human remains, I think that you shouldn't go intentionally out looking for them Rowan SParker: about how can we decide if/when it is ethical to excavate Vibia Schomer: of course not mars Rowan SParker: I don't agree! Vibia Schomer: well there are strict guidelines so i do agree with it Rowan SParker: why shouldn't an archaeologiest decide to look for a very old burial site they suspect might exist somewhere? Vibia Schomer: and the remains are only moved if absolutly neccessary Rowan SParker: ummmm You: Although, twisting my last comment, I do agree with Rowan as well lol - Rowan SParker: most modern archaeology is 'rescue archaeology' You: and if we have a serious lack in a specific area of our ancestry, we should try to learn as much about it Rowan SParker: which means a new estate or skyscraper or something is going to be built Vibia Schomer: I agree with Rowan on being able to look for burial grounds You: We have the ability to, so why not? Rowan SParker: and the archaeologists have a last chance to see what they can find there You: How long a time period do they have? Rowan SParker: But I do agree Vibia ont he need to behave according to rules and treat human remains with respect Vibia Schomer: I tihnk as we have the opportnity we should learn as much as we can about our ancestry Rowan SParker: typically something like 6 months - 1 year You: Cos if there's something in the area, I think you should be able to look around as much as possible Vibia Schomer: All remains are treated with the upmost respect You: Archaeologists that it Rowan SParker: yes At this point, we decided we all had to go, and agreed to meet again next friday.
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