Author Topic: Shops on the plaza  (Read 19343 times)

Offline Sam

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Re: Shops on the plaza
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2007, 11:52:22 AM »
I agree that we should explore issues to do with money - IMHO one of the shortcomings of schooling is that insufficient attention is paid to basic things like finanace (which lets face it is a basic skills that everyone should develop)
PeterT
You say this however in my experience some schools have tried to implement this though “tutor time” even with one lesson a week being devoted to this kind of thing, however students respond very negatively. If they do not feel it is helping them pass their exams (which I know is another contention within Schome). You need to be careful about how you approach this as otherwise students may see it as a waste of their time.

Offline Fox Phlox

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Re: Shops on the plaza
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2007, 02:06:11 PM »
I think the notion of cooperative store was trying to sum up two things (but I'm only guessing cos it wasn't my suggestion):
  • cooperation = cooperative
  • repository/collection = store

Yes, Peter's right, just another way of saying a repository of objects made by us working together.
I spent some time working on an oral history of the Co-operative movement and was fascinated by what an enormous international organisation it used to be. It had its own world view which it did well at implementing within the prevailing economic system, it manufactured its own good quality items, it was designed for the benefit of its members, it owned and managed its own land. So those are all resonances which I get with the term 'Cooperative store'.
Only the stoutest arm, the bravest heart, with a magic charm and a good head start can ever outfox the Fox

Offline mgaved

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Re: Shops on the plaza
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2007, 12:05:56 PM »
1. Why currency?

Quote
(PeterT said:) Is a question about whether we use the main inworld currency (L$) or some other currency of our own devising - not least to overcome the potential problems that Sam hinted at ...


Can we break down who has the money we are talking about here? I'm a little confused. Let me know which of the below groups you think should be dealing with money in Second Life

1. The Schome employees (i.e. us under contract)
2. Us as individuals independent from Schome
3. The students who we work with in SL

I don't understand why we as Schome employees need to make money in SL. As you know, my preference is we give away everything we make for free. The sums of virtual money  we'd make by selling items are so tiny that we'd be better employed throwing the odd five pounds real money into the game world if we need a common fund to purchase items sold in-game by others.

If people as individuals want to make money in SL then surely it would be less problematic and "cleaner" just to set up second avatars independent of schome to make money? (if for example folk were keen to buy in-game items that aren't really useful to Schome, like fancy clothes etc).

I can understand that we might be interested in supporting students using money in Second Life to explore business skills by running in-game markets/ stores/stock exchange trading. Sound like some ethical issues here though :)

2. Naming of repositories

Repository is a very unfriendly term for sure! :) I don't think we should use it, I just threw it up there as a distinct term from "shop" with all its connotations. I was drawing on the idea of a code repository, a place where you keep bits of code that might get re-used later: the implication being that it's a store cupboard where you retrieve things later, and that you have free access to.

(Incidently Rebecca I'd be fascinated if you have any cool references - easy books or papers as an introduction - to the Cooperative movement... hehehe I think we could have a great time subverting Second Life by introducing a counter-philosophy which isn't based on making money)

« Last Edit: January 09, 2007, 12:09:36 PM by mgaved »
Teen Second Life: Mark Sparker / Second Life: Redmark Hax

Offline PeterT

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Re: Shops on the plaza
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2007, 06:50:46 PM »
1. Why currency?
Can we break down who has the money we are talking about here? I'm a little confused. Let me know which of the below groups you think should be dealing with money in Second Life

1. The Schome employees (i.e. us under contract)
2. Us as individuals independent from Schome
3. The students who we work with in SL

I don't understand why we as Schome employees need to make money in SL. As you know, my preference is we give away everything we make for free. The sums of virtual money  we'd make by selling items are so tiny that we'd be better employed throwing the odd five pounds real money into the game world if we need a common fund to purchase items sold in-game by others.

If people as individuals want to make money in SL then surely it would be less problematic and "cleaner" just to set up second avatars independent of schome to make money? (if for example folk were keen to buy in-game items that aren't really useful to Schome, like fancy clothes etc).

I can understand that we might be interested in supporting students using money in Second Life to explore business skills by running in-game markets/ stores/stock exchange trading. Sound like some ethical issues here though :)

My 2p worth (sorry couldn't resist) -

May be differences between the responses for the Main and Teen Grids.

  • In the Teen Grid
    • There is no need for anyone to have dosh - unless it is part of some exchange mechanism that we set up for educational purposes, and the feeling I was getting from the commuity was that in this case we would be better using our own currency. The 'shop' (whatever that ends up being called) will sell things for nothing (have to say sell cos of the coding hardwired into the pie tool ('buy') - though of course in an open source version of the client this could be changed)
  • In the Main Grid
    • Schome 'employees' (or at least their avatars) may need dosh to buy things that we need for schome activities/objects - in which case they can ask Schomer Simpson for it (Schomer has dosh for needs such as this and happily gives it away to folk who need it for a legitimate schome purpose).
    • Individuals (who may or may not be working on schome related things) and the students we work with (who will be adults) may well have dosh - I don't want to exclude folk because they do - though of course that doesn't mean that we need to use L$ on SchomeBase if we don't want to. Again my expectation is that we will be giving things away in an 'open source' kind of mindset. Here too there may be educational purposes for having a means of exchange/value (whether that be L$ or some other tokens).

Interesting thoughts about setting up an alternative culture - I think this debate needs to go on though - cos I am very torn about the educational advantages of being able to engage in 'real commerce' .... whilst also being very attracted by the whole open-source mentality (taking that way beyond software development).




Offline PeterT

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Re: Shops on the plaza
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2007, 06:53:42 PM »
2. Naming of repositories
Repository is a very unfriendly term for sure! :) I don't think we should use it, I just threw it up there as a distinct term from "shop" with all its connotations. I was drawing on the idea of a code repository, a place where you keep bits of code that might get re-used later: the implication being that it's a store cupboard where you retrieve things later, and that you have free access to.

(Incidently Rebecca I'd be fascinated if you have any cool references - easy books or papers as an introduction - to the Cooperative movement... hehehe I think we could have a great time subverting Second Life by introducing a counter-philosophy which isn't based on making money)

I think we are going with the notion of The Scho-op store - Kieron can take 'credit' for that - following in a 'long tradition' (schomebase, Schomer Simpson, TheSchome Ranger, Schomer Pidgeon (shame about the death of Schoming Pidgeon), Schomehenge, ....)   lol

Offline kieron

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Re: Shops on the plaza
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2007, 03:04:16 AM »
I have been putting together a collection of items for the Scho-Op. This will give the TG NAGTY people things to open, try out and try on. These are selected items from my growing Sch-Operative collection. They are all free.
As we begin to produce Schome-made items then these can be added.
I have a good range of clothes, avatars, buildings, textures etc so that people can get the hang of opening obejcts, building and generally playing around.
I have been lured from the sky by the promise of  a nice floor in a Dan-built building. We can always add a teleport if we need more room. I'm putting the items in picture frames. These will have a floating script 'Scho-Op  Dragons', 'Scho-Op Flying Vehicles' and a picture on the framefront (e.g. of a dragon or a helicopter'). [I am not putting in any obvious weapons, music (copyright issues) or 'adult' material.] 
This should help people get started and  have some fun. 
[Love the idea of the 'gift tree' -will try and find out more].
Once this is down on the island let me know if you can see any missing/needed items or things that need tweaking.

 

Offline Dan

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Re: Shops on the plaza
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2007, 09:57:51 AM »
Further to this (and a very late night, see my wiki page http://schome.open.ac.uk/wikiworks/index.php/User:Dan#10th_January.2C_2007) I've built a space to house the co-op, helpdesk and library.  We decided this would be the most practical combination at this stage.

The intention is all the great Scho-Op work Kieron was done will be located around the outside of the ground floor, the library can do similar with their own resources on the first floor.

In the centre of the ground floor you step down into a central area which I designed to be the 'helpdesk' (in as much it will provide helpful information, there is no actial 'desk').  This will all make sense if you look at the following image, in which I've put a few 'marker' noticeboards up which will soon display the help information for our visitors.

http://schome.open.ac.uk/wikiworks/index.php/Image:Librarycoop2.jpg

PS: large twelve-sided building designs are an absolute *insert choice phrase here* to do, but given the 10metre size restraint on individual prims, I felt it was the best approach to creating a large open airy structure that, once visitors were in, meant they could still easily look around the interior space to see what else was in there.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2007, 04:41:03 PM by Dan »
SL: Woop Superior (MG) / Woop Kamachi (TG)
RL: Dan

Offline PeterT

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Re: Shops on the plaza
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2007, 06:46:02 AM »
 :)  Dan - you are a star - brilliant designs (no surprise there then) - amazed at how much you have achieved.

Thank you.

PeterT

Offline kieron

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Re: Shops on the plaza
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2007, 11:40:19 AM »
Brilliant stuff. Looks cool and very usable.
I'll begin putting some collections of items in there tomorrow night.

Offline Dan

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Re: Shops on the plaza
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2007, 01:34:21 PM »
I look forward to seeing the results when I return from Austria.
SL: Woop Superior (MG) / Woop Kamachi (TG)
RL: Dan

Offline Fox Phlox

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Re: Shops on the plaza
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2007, 08:40:28 PM »
Quote
(Incidently Rebecca I'd be fascinated if you have any cool references - easy books or papers as an introduction - to the Cooperative movement... hehehe I think we could have a great time subverting Second Life by introducing a counter-philosophy which isn't based on making money)

Hi, Mark. I've consulted on this one. Apparently Roger Spear is an expert on co-ops, runs the OU's co-op research unit and  is a senior lecturer in technology at the OU.
The three tenets of the original Rochdale Pioneers were:
1. efficiency rather than competiton
2. profit sharing
3. votes for members.
Only the stoutest arm, the bravest heart, with a magic charm and a good head start can ever outfox the Fox

Offline Fox Phlox

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Re: Shops on the plaza
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2007, 10:36:11 PM »
Once this is down on the island let me know if you can see any missing/needed items or things that need tweaking.

Hi Kieron,
I've been in the Scho-op, checking out the inventory. I noticed the Scho-op furniture pack costs $10L - this will need to be tweaked if the SParkers have no Linden dollars. Also we seem to have two very similar sets of Scho-op animals.
It's a good range of things - but I can't find the sledge or the snow machine :-(
I'll be trying out the firework launcher on my next visit
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Only the stoutest arm, the bravest heart, with a magic charm and a good head start can ever outfox the Fox

Offline mgaved

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co-op philosophy
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2007, 01:59:02 PM »
cheers Rebecca!

Quote
The three tenets of the original Rochdale Pioneers were:
1. efficiency rather than competition
2. profit sharing
3. votes for members

ooh, I like the three tenets. It seems to me that it would be more interesting getting the NAGTY students to run a co-op than a straight business as that involves dealing with politics as well as profit - though I appreciate that's my personal bias. Thanks for the info.

Teen Second Life: Mark Sparker / Second Life: Redmark Hax

Offline kieron

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Re: Shops on the plaza
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2007, 02:59:28 PM »
oops, sorry about the 10 dollars. Yes, it should be no/zero/zilch dollars.
Have given you jet cow and flying pig in compensation for this oversight.  (the rocket cow is still too unruly)

Offline PeterT

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Re: Shops on the plaza
« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2007, 08:51:13 AM »
Rebecca has created a page in the wiki that provides an overview of what is in the Scho-op and highlights some gaps - would be good if others could add to it and help collect the 'missing items' (which should be given to Kieron/Zed to add to the Scho-op - and copies should be given to Schomer Pidgeon remembering that the permissions need to be set so that Zed/SchomerP can move/copy/give away etc).

PeterT