It is possibly to late but thought I support the idea of a Kanji element a little further as there are excellent reasons for it and the arguments against aren't strong. [but I may be wrong]. In response to some pr3evious questions -here are a couple of answers and a tentative suggestion. Q1. Aren't theses hard to udenrstand or remember? No, Kanji logographs are more easily learned and recognised than traditonal english orthography. Children who struggle with english scripts learn kanji scripts much more readily. Logographs also cross national borders readily. So,I see the use of a logograph as a being inclusive and schome is inclusive. Q2. But aren't they too complicated and squiggly to use? either in type setting or writing down. No, kanji symbols (or logographs) don't have to be complicated or squiggly. Here is one suggestion.
Not complicated or too squiggly and works in black and white. (Obviously someone with graphic design skills could make it more visually coherent and get the symbol more 'h-like', colours as required but hope it shows the potential). It also has meaning. What is at the heart of schome? The symbol is the Kanji symbol for 'human being'. The heart of schome is the person, not school , not home? So I reckon it works in terms of feeling schomey.
We could have a logo like this. It looks cool (does it), it conveys teh schome spirit (does it?) and it indicates that we are looking beyound teh traditional othographic and national boundaries (are we? Have I just been drinking too much coffee?)
I made a html file with all the css in it to make the logo, it's here, it may be easier to play with this than making and uploading all these .jpgs etc. I much prefer the 'more than' approach (sorry peter), although, we could have a core 'schome' title and then a 'random' tagline at the bottom each time the page reloads (pleasing more people?).--Olly 22:13, 24 February 2007 (GMT)
radical change of logo ;-)
Going back to my "let's talk about Schome in the positive rather than negative".
- Seconded. --Dan 16:02, 23 February 2007 (GMT)
- Nice try Mark - as I explained to you in a previous email 'not school - not home - schome' works in this context for two reasons: (a) it plays on NotSchool - probably the most well known and influential alternative to school in the UK and indeed globally (b) it deliberately uses the negative to imply the opposite of what is being said (see 'Don't drop the pink elephant' - a great book about effective communication). So I will strongly resist any move to drop the 'not' version. I must say I think the 'more than' version works well, but for folk in the 'future schools' area not as well as the 'not version' - I would be happy to have two (or more) taglines - but to complement rather than replace the 'not' version - but I know that the push is to reduce the number of logolike elements rather than increase them .... PeterT 08:22, 24 February 2007 (GMT)
- Don't know if I'm supposed to be commenting on this, but I would have to agree that the "not" is far more powerful than the "more than" which to me would just seem like "more school", so I would be switched off already. Mummypenny 16:52, 24 February 2007 (GMT)
- Of course you are welcome to comment on this - the more views the merrier - particularly if they agree with me! lol - let's face it I need all the support I can get - PeterT 17:47, 24 February 2007 (GMT)
- Also wondered why the "h" in schome needs to be highlighted? Mummypenny 16:52, 24 February 2007 (GMT)
- I'll work up some more logos over the weekend, and use 'not'. Thanks for feedback, just "doodling" at the moment so feedback is good. --Mgaved 16:37, 24 February 2007 (GMT)
My problem is how to balance up the kerning (space between letters) for the two lines as "school" and "home" are different lengths. Same is true of all the other tag lines used. The only thing I can think at the moment is to have everything right aligned so you get a diagonal lead from top left to bottom right. The problem with schome for me as a logo is that the "h" is not centred, so it creates an uneven weighting, plus text above it is rather pinned onto the ascending leg of the h.
- I actually liked the way the above panned out with the taglines specifically because of the aforementioned diagonal.--Dan 16:02, 23 February 2007 (GMT)
- I'm liking this more and more. What about left aligning all the text so that it will sit in the top left of documents in a nice way? Or vertically aligning the 'h' in school and home and having the 'sch' and 'ome' bits in the same colours (just in case you don't get it:) ). Also, looks very CSSable which is good, not to mention that we could actually have a different style sheet for printing so making it grey scale properly is not an issue.--Olly 16:53, 23 February 2007 (GMT)
- Go for it Olly, throw up a couple of ideas on this page. This wasjust my doodling, not precious about it :-) Font is just the plain Verdana bold and colours are the OU ones. --Mgaved 18:26, 23 February 2007 (GMT)
- Or using H instead of h PeterT 08:24, 24 February 2007 (GMT)
A couple more logos - using the colours we've played with before. I feel more comfortable with flat colours rather than graduated or otherwise complex forms of colour because I think flat colours will be bolder and reproduce across media better.
- I prefer the 'purple' and 'brown' to the 'blue' and 'purple' - easier on the eyes? PeterT 08:25, 24 February 2007 (GMT)
Note the capitalised "T" in one of them.
and in greyscale
- Those are greyscales of the colour images. I think we only need a single image for black and white printing, one with a higher contrast between the 'h' and the rest of the word. That doesn't come across at the moment. --Dan 16:02, 23 February 2007 (GMT)
- Hi Dan, yup this was just a quick hack, I took the colour image and forced it to greyscale in Photoshop. Just wanted people to get an idea of how it might look. I agree we should play with the grey tones more once people decide on the logos they'd like to use. Keep on throwing up ideas! --Mgaved 18:28, 23 February 2007 (GMT)
- I'll work up versions with all lowercase and see how they look --Mgaved 16:39, 24 February 2007 (GMT)
I'll be bold and suggest some rules for logos (feel free to comment).
1. We - as in the Open University - need to have the font in both its screen and its print output format. It must be licenced for us to use (or at least affordable, some of the London design houses charge silly prices...). So while Olly's found a super-cool website ;-) we need to make sure any font has both a screen and print version (something like a True Type Font). Otherwise at best we won't be able to reproduce it and at worst we could get sued, fonts have copyright attached to them.
2. Not too many colours - so paper versions look good (worksheets, handouts, etc). Metallic colours cost *lots* of money at printers....
3. Must work in black and white (or at least greyscale). Do a test print on a black and white printer. Its likely we'll be making up support materials, worksheets etc which will get printed out so the logo and any other ident stuff needs to work there. --Mgaved 13:10, 23 February 2007 (GMT)
Concerned, for example about the kanji logo once reduced to greyscale:
Or these (also from http://cooltext.com/ cooltext)
I wanted to do this with the right colour - faded brown background? - but my technical skills failed me.
- The font is interesting but I think two issues: the contrast isn't very strong so not so good for people with poorer sight and the complex background texture could be really problematic for reproducing on paper resources. (e.g. people downloading and printing out stuff in black and white, worksheets for students, costing colour print runs). What font are you using? I could mock up on a single colour light brown background if you can get the font to me --Mgaved 11:08, 23 February 2007 (GMT)
How about this?
Seriously though, this website has a design feature in it http://cooltext.com/. I like the bold purple with orange, but I do think that we could come up with a better design if we had more time (I don't include me in 'we'!).
- I rather liked the flames - though I'm sure folk would tell me that anything that moves can't be a logo - so na! PeterT 06:44, 23 February 2007 (GMT) --Olly 21:17, 22 February 2007 (GMT)
- hahaha I could lose hours playing with this website ;-) --Mgaved 13:03, 23 February 2007 (GMT)
My son didn't fancy the two logos under 21st Feb below - but really liked the caligraphy thing at the bottom - which inspired:
Very rough and ready but what do you recon? (Just cos I posted it doesn't mean I like it ....)
In an effort to add some more choice (not simply to make things more confusing), another couple of alternatives...
You can imagine with the above arrangement you could then have two smaller options if required. One version being just the white stylised 'S' on a coloured background, the other being the white 'schome' text ona coloured background. 3 for the price of 1.
At the meeting today it was decided to make things as straightforward as possible, due to the timescale, and to go with three colours from the OU colour palette and use a Verdana font. The word schome to appear all in lower case.
The three selected colours are:
Anyone signed on at the Open University will be able to access these colours through the OU Brand website. For reference you can find the full range of colours used in this mornings discussion in this pdf. The colours selected this morning were:
- I have to say that I thought these colours looked much nicer on the monitor in the OU than they do on my one at home! I prefer Mark's blue and brown - but we should stick with the decision made in the meeting today - at least for the time being .... ;O) PeterT 17:00, 20 February 2007 (GMT)
- Colours will look different on all monitors unless properly calibrated, this as far as I understand is a very black art indeed. As a public project we have to assume the users monitors won't be calibrated. There's probably some high level academic research which proves that we all see colours differently anyway (much hilarity at the heckling I got "the OU blue.." Gill and Rebecca "that's purple!" :-) ... of course the OU calls it "violet" and Mark cheerfully admits he finds the violet / purple distinction hard... :-)) )
- How do you want to do this folks? dictatorial decision or vote amongst us folk who are driving this part of the project forwards? We need a decision from PeterT over branding - is Schome to be closely associated with the Open University? If so my shout is then we use the OU colour wheel palette (and this narrows down our options for discussion! :-) ) --Mgaved 09:39, 21 February 2007 (GMT)
- I specifically do NOT want schome closely associated with the OU - that is why I went to the trouble (and it was a lot of trouble) of getting the schome.ac.uk url rather than using schome.open.ac.uk - schome is bigger than the OU and needs to not be owned by or linked too tightly to one organisation. Having said that I think democracy ought to be the way to go - so long as that can be done rapidly. In general I don't think one should revisit decisions too rapidly - but I do think we have made a poor choice on this occasion (and so does Dan - see his comment above) and it is a pretty critical decision. I think further discussion of this ought to be in the forum PeterT 05:23, 22 February 2007 (GMT)
|Wiki background blue #f5faff|
|OU violet #f5f1ff||OU violet shaded pale #f5f1ff|
|OU blue #00B1EA||OU blue shaded pale #EDFBFF|
|OU orange #EF6820||OU orange shaded pale #FFEDE4|
- Looks much better in bold. Wonder what it would be like in italics, and if the letters were converging towards a distance point (I know what I mean! and the answer would probably be 'squashy'). Dan 14:30, 21 February 2007 (GMT)
13th Feb - First proposals (now superceded)
A first go at some proposed colour swatches --Mgaved 00:15, 13 February 2007 (GMT)
- Should always be
not school - not home - schome The education system for the Information Age
- but ideally both lines should be the same length (so larger font size on top line) like in the example below PeterT 16:57, 20 February 2007 (GMT)
- not like this:
poss tonals.. very conventional but relatively accessible
OK... gave up on the dog kennel (don't ask) but got to thinking about the Japanese garden.....
This is only a first play but incorporates part of the Kanji calligraphy for 'home' and part of the calligraphy for 'school' - all merged together. I can play around whtih this but thought I'd run the concept by a few folk here first