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Author Topic: Wintermute's ideas, or, What I do in my jar all day long!  (Read 18176 times)
An¡mus
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« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2007, 11:34:03 AM »

going back to the original point by wintermute, maybe we should ask the staff to choose who they think the most productive 'leaders' may be.
p.s it does rather seem that all wintermute does in his jar all day is dodgey french accents!
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Trixxiee Schomer
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« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2007, 12:02:23 PM »

going back to the original point by wintermute, maybe we should ask the staff to choose who they think the most productive 'leaders' may be.
p.s it does rather seem that all wintermute does in his jar all day is dodgey french accents!
We could, but that means we have to continue to rely on the staff if someone doesn't do their job properly, and that is something (I believe) we want to move away from. It also means that if someone hasn't spoken to the staff much, but are really good at something, they could be left out, which is also something we want to avoid, as we want to be as inclusive as possible. It's probably fairer to get other SParkers to nominate people, and have some kind of voting thing if more than one person is nominated, because that means everyone has a chance and we don't need to rely on the staff for something else.

Trix
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Decimus Schomer
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« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2007, 12:25:41 PM »

  • why do people buy and sell things in real life?
  • why don't people give away things they make in real life?
  • Is Second Life the same as real life when it comes to the answers?
First and second ones - capitalism is self-reinforcing. If you have to buy something, you have to get money to buy it, which involves selling things rather than giving them away which means someone else has to get money, ad infinitum...
Third one - Schome Park has been built with practically no automatic political left/right position (other than a mild right shift due to upload costs, but this can be overcome by giving out the money when it's needed). Hence it is different as it's far easier than RL to set up a specific position...
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Explo Schomer
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« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2007, 11:26:21 AM »

Well, I'm utterly biased towards communism so I support Decimus and Trixxiee's ideas in this. In a world like schome park where resources are free (although uploads pose a problem) is there really any need for money? I think that all goods should certainly be available for copying, even if people do not want someone to have, or modify, the original. Just copying is not ideal in itself as copies cannot be modified (selling copies for L$0 and giving the next owner the right to modify solves this though). However, there are problems in this with the prim limit-limited money creates a method of limiting production. Mind you, the sale of goods encourages those with more practise at building just to accumulate money by selling goods which can be over priced-which is both unfair and encourages wasteful use of prims, as people build purely to sell. Coming back to my first point communal property is preferred (ideally even trade is not necessary), but we are left to think of ways to keep the number of prims down.

On the TesCho I really do not see the point. For one thing goods could be sold in the Scho-op for free (so competition would take it out of business anyway). The difficulty is in upload costs. The $1 charge could act as a form of subsidy for anyone who wants to upload graphics, but I think that it is far better that they can just ask, rather than building prims purely for sale. The other thing is that once a graphic is uploaded it can be used again and again. Uploading text seems to me rather pointless as there are many scripts out there for creating not only floating text (llsettext) but also text on the prim itself (llxytext).

In other words: Communism is the way forward! :)
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Marko Schomer
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« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2007, 12:40:15 PM »

On the issue of money, I really don't see why it's necessary. Noone has any money, except that given out by the staff. To use that on things which could be done for free would be a waste. It would greatly increase the costs of the whole project, which is something we want to avoid (the less it costs, the longer Schome Island can be kept running) As well as this point, why does anyone need money? The only reason to charge for services would be so that you can buy services off others, and they would only charge because they need to buy services off another. The whole thing would be pointless. Objects are completely free to create and can be copied with no cost and no disadvantage to the creator. The only disadvantage there is if people produce too much is that the number of prims available drops. Introducing private ownership would increase this problem by a huge factor, as everyone would need their own copy of a particular object rather than sharing ownership. Overall, we've made great progress under a system without money. Why change?
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Achilles Schomer
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« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2007, 03:40:15 PM »

the question is why l$1
that forces people to have money, we have no credit details so we can't buy cash ourselves
so the staff would be the only source

in that sense the staff would be paying the owner of the shops!

another thing is, supposing we add details to our accounts to cash in the l$
1L$ = 0.002p - to have any real world value you would need to sell 500 items (1p)
and paypal has a 20p minimum charge... not including percentages that means 10000 items to be sold

in short l$ for items in schome is pretty pointless while the island is in pilot mode
maybe a consideration if we ever opened the island (prices would have to be increased)
but till then it is counter productive and useless


« Last Edit: April 10, 2007, 03:46:44 PM by Achilles Schomer » Logged

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Doctor Schomer
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« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2007, 10:01:48 PM »

I think that if people may charge for complex items of thier own creation, for instance, Baso's flight script (now residing in my TARDIS :P) is a work of art, it acutally works!


Items that are highly modified may also be charged, but I would not expect nor want to be charged if I were buying it 'second hand' or if the object  has no function or was simple to make. a painting, for example, I would pay for, as long as the painting itself was not 10L, because I could just get that myself, also if the art were orignal, I would gladly pay for something like that, because it is unique.

It seems i've gone in full circle.....typical



oh, can someone please give me my mod status back?

-Hapno
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Marko Schomer
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« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2007, 03:17:07 PM »

I think that if people may charge for complex items of thier own creation

One major problem with charging for things is that all money currently comes from the staff. Introducing virtual costs just means that the actual costs of the project skyrocket, which is what we want to avoid. Also, the only point in charging is to get money in order to buy things. If noone charges any money for their products, noone needs to charge in order to pay for something else. The creator of an object loses nothing if someone else buys it, because you can always sell copies or store objects in the inventory. If a particular script, or build, or texture, is extremely good, then it can be shared with everyone so that everyone gains and noone loses out.
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Doctor Schomer
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« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2007, 10:35:06 PM »

forgive me, Marko, but I was referring to when we open.


haha

but, to be frank, (even though i'm called Hapno) Money is rather a stupid idea on a closed island.


-Hapno
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Marko Schomer
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« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2007, 08:02:13 PM »

forgive me, Marko, but I was referring to when we open.

Even then, I'd advocate trying to maintain a system without money. It wouldn't involve any of the problems with repetition of objects that arise when property is private, and it would mean that those who, for whatever reason, are not able to script or build as well as others can still get the objects they want or need. Research especially needs to remain unreliant on sources of money. Ethics and philosophy don't require objects to a great extent, but physics and archaeology certainly both require specialised objects, and if private property becomes the dominant system then these strands will need to find funds somewhere, which will vastly decrease the potential gains from study in these areas. As well as that, there's the other collaborative projects which wouldn't work as smoothly with the introduction of pricing. The chessboard couldn't be created as easily, and the development of scripts for sailing wouldn't happen. Once SkyBase is fully running, surely it would be disadvantageous if lessons cost money?
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Doctor Schomer
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« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2007, 09:38:39 PM »

I agree, Marko, but when we do 'open' we're going to encounter things that would be good to have, or may be useful for Schome, but they WONT be free. Also, we'll have to use money sometime, to upload, or, if worse comes to worst. Pay our own accounts.

-Hapno
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« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2007, 07:25:59 PM »

... or, if worse comes to worst. Pay our own accounts.

Even having an account doesn't cost anything - you can get one basic account free per person - though on the Teen Grid you do have to provide a credit card number (which seems counter intuitive I know but is part of the mechanism for ensuring that LL can track who has signed up of an account on the Teen Grid).

PeterT
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Doctor Schomer
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« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2007, 08:22:03 PM »

are you sure? I signed up for an account and it gave me a free '7-day' trial....nice.....
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« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2007, 09:51:26 PM »

are you sure? I signed up for an account and it gave me a free '7-day' trial....nice.....
That's interesting - could be that LL have changed their policy ...
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Marsbar9 Schomer
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« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2007, 02:56:41 PM »

1) Only cakes are L$1 at mo - didn't get round to changing everything else lol
2) I am the person who has asked for the most money to upload things ( shame on me :S)

I'd like to know what people think about me selling stuff - ahead of finishing stage three of mars - the retail outlet!
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-Mars
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