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Author Topic: How well has the planning system worked?  (Read 9378 times)
PeterT
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« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2007, 04:40:42 PM »

Personally, I don't see what's wrong with building something in the sandbox. The main object of the little houses in SPi wasn't their use- people could meet anywhere- but their creation. In that case, surely they can be created in the sandbox, rather than requiring permanent planning permission? The problem with the houses wasn't that they were created, but that they weren't deleted much and weren't used much. Now we have a very large sandbox, which extends upwards for kilometres. Why can't builds be put there, and then deleted when the sandbox is cleared? If someone want to keep a record of their build, they can always put it into inventory.

I agree with this so long as the sandbox is big enough.

In Phase 1 the whole island above 200m was in effect a sandbox (plus about 20% of the island below 200m). On Phase 2 the sandbox accounts for less than 20% of the space (roughly).

Do we have the balance right?   ???
Would it be better if the sandbox accounted for a larger proportion of the island?  ???
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Miss. Vibia
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« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2007, 05:31:11 PM »

I agree with Marko, plus in SPi I didn't realise at the time, but when we moved into SPii, the first islands skies were rather crowded with builds which wasn't what we wanted with SPii, we wanted more open spaces which was what we got. So in the respect of how well it has worked, I think it has been rather effective- although perhaps a little brutal at times!  :D
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Marko Schomer
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« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2007, 06:31:10 PM »

Snce the sandbox extends upwards, I'd say there's easily enough space. 50m by 50m by 400m is 1,000,000 cubic metres, and a house would be about 20m by 20m by 10m so 4,000 cubic metres. That allows approx 250 builds, which is far more than would be built. Just as early builds don't need permanence, they don't need to be on the ground.

One point which KitKatKit has noted is that he didn't want to go into the planning permission process. We need to make it more obvious that anyone can post a planning permission, and that most applications are passed quite quickly.
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Baso Schomer
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« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2007, 10:30:58 AM »

In Schome Park the Third (yet another popular title:P)
or SP3 0r spt3 or what ever you wish to call it...i think that we have most of a sim dedicated to teaching building etc..then the other to show off stuff..then there is a clear plc ein which you can build and theres no ""no spacce" argument..

i think that this would really help people learn to do stuff aswel as this "Sim OF Techneological and Architectural Education"  Could Have A Corner or side dedicated to teachingthem...

.id love to have something like and 1/8th of a sim (so some part of a quater f the sim..or possibly in the middle ) ta i could teac people things and with fundings help, uplaod some tetures to make building easier :D .

And possibly that could be b/pp inworld center..a  little office with a modified questionbot script that  you submit your build, its coordinates etc and a bp officer posts it up here....useful for if you never get round to posting onthe forum and also..with about 100 prims i oculd make a board tht listens to to a ntecard that you input the builds name and coordinates, and displays the list :D
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Baso Schomer
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« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2007, 10:34:53 AM »

i have a lot of plans...just i dont like a lot of writing :P :P
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Miss. Vibia
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« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2007, 11:03:36 AM »

I like the idea of the B+PP centre with the bot Baso- I think it would look less formidable than the endless streams of threads!  :D
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Explo Schomer
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« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2007, 01:54:11 PM »

Although a nice concept, I think that a question bot would be utterly inadequate for the B+PP process. Instead, we need to ensure that all of us know how everything works and can explain it if asked to. Even the best computers are a poor replacement for humans when in discussions-think of how many mistakes the chatbots make. We could, however, have a bot to which applications can be given, and a link to the forums would be very useful (one thing which newcomers seem to find confusing is linking between the world, forum, and wiki).
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« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2007, 02:13:53 PM »

For me, one of the best things about a virtual world is that it makes me question everything. So when I think about history in virtual worlds I have to pause and ask myself what history is and why we study it. And when I think about buildings I have to stop to think about what a building is and why we have them. So now I'm thinking about building and planning permission regs. Why do we have them?

Our current building and planning permission regulations seem to me to have three reasons for being:
(1) to produce good quality buildings
(2) to restrain us from over-use of prims
(3) to achieve these aims in a transparent and democratic manner

If we added a new reason, right at the top of the list
(1*) to encourage all Sparkers to think of themselves as builders
how would the current regulations have to change?
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Baso Schomer
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« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2007, 03:19:15 PM »

Well..how many times have i said i wanted to run sessions, however when Secondlife.com is saying nobody is online during the session time, i dont neceserally want to spend 5 mins trying to log on...then nothing happening when i could be playing on my buisness on the teen grid.....

I want to teahc people how to build..but however, we need to get some times and commitment,,,good building doesnt come by the gallon, its a hard training processs....

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« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2007, 03:48:09 PM »

Baso, my posting wasn't meant as a criticism of the current builders. I know you have been impressively proactive about running sessions.

This is something the staff have to think about quite deeply about some of our sessions. If no one turns up, is it because they don't have the interest or the commitment, or is it something else?

My impression is that the best builders on Schome Park learned their craft by spending a lot of time messing around, trying to achieve an effect, maybe asking for help when they got stuck, maybe reading some notecards or Internet pages, maybe looking at other people's builds for inspiration. Perhaps it's something that doesn't lend itself to direct instruction?

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Baso Schomer
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« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2007, 05:38:16 PM »

thats very true...and yes in most builds..you halve t look for inspiration, then a theme, then the practicality, then the interoior design, then the placement, then the audience range, then the sl sim lagment features, then sl abilties and physics, then comparison, then fitting it in, then the impact, then beta prim testing.....theres much more that goes into my builds, problem is, it takes time to build something, wether it be emotiions toward somebody, an object, a building, a rule, and most of the time, people bypass that......hence why i, like many others detest it when you get told to take your child apart, or hurry up, or replace it, simplty because all of these things take time, i really want to teach this to people,  awareness of impact aand structure of buildings is nearly always missed when really, its what makes a builder their build..
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« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2007, 07:40:40 PM »

Personally I just play around with the shapes which I think I might be able to use, and try to fit them all together vaguely smoothly (or not, as the case may be), though of course I only tend to build small things (I'm all too willing to raise the question of why bigger is seen as better again) and they are hardly the ambitious projects I see others working on.

Anyway, I think that playing around is the best way to find things out, with experience coming best with practise, but it also helps to be told various quirks of the system. For instance, the way in which properties of one prim type (say a dimple in a sphere) can be carried to other prim types. Likewise, you really need to be told or to read through the tutorials to find out hotkeys.
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Baso Schomer
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« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2007, 10:45:10 PM »

hot keys i never seem to use even though i know them :P
Yes i agree though..i learned the basics by playing..as i do with mostthings, however big projects require a ot of practise or a bit of luck...lcu kbeing that you had  a vision and you came up with  a nice design...big projects arent popular simply because they take time....and i know for a fact..in sl a day is like a week in RL....hings happen quickly....but long builds take long.....you need resourses and textures and money and help......there is a reason that architects are paid a lot in rl......there is a lot to do...now skybase...an old buil of mine, never got finished....simply because i never got contributions but never mind that :P yes.....i despise the fact that lots of small builds over one multifncional build are present in SPii and possibly SP3, i wanted to make the undergorund of SPTC into a 1 prim robot that has everything..includng automatic servers etc.......however people wanted their build..oh well :P

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Achilles Schomer
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« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2007, 10:28:57 AM »

the reason skybase got its reputation was that it made itself an example of how many prim people can use if not monitored (I still shudder when people say 1k prims)
the servers may of taken up 1 prim-but I somewhat doubt multipurpose with a single prim does not require tons of scripts each crippling the area

spii is far too laggy as it is

(not a criticism btw but more stating reasons)
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PeterT
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« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2007, 06:36:01 AM »

thats very true...and yes in most builds..you halve t look for inspiration, then a theme, then the practicality, then the interoior design, then the placement, then the audience range, then the sl sim lagment features, then sl abilties and physics, then comparison, then fitting it in, then the impact, then beta prim testing...

I found this list fascinating and impressive - must admit (as someone who really doesn't build anything much at all) I had not realised that it involved so many different facets ...

..theres much more that goes into my builds, problem is, it takes time to build something, wether it be emotiions toward somebody, an object, a building, a rule, and most of the time, people bypass that......hence why i, like many others detest it when you get told to take your child apart, or hurry up, or replace it, simplty because all of these things take time, i really want to teach this to people,  awareness of impact aand structure of buildings is nearly always missed when really, its what makes a builder their build..

This really struck me - I'd never thought of building as the development of a relationship (emotions toward somebody) or community norms (a rule). A really interesting observation - puts building in a whole new light for me.  8)

Also helps explain why getting folk to think in terms of 'just in time builds' (ones you keep in your inventory and get out when you need them) has been so strongly resisted.



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