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Schome Park Programme => Reflection and forward planning => Topic started by: PeterT on December 01, 2007, 10:23:32 AM



Title: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: PeterT on December 01, 2007, 10:23:32 AM
Although I think we should be focussing on reflecting on Phase 2 (http://schome.open.ac.uk/forum/index.php?board=112.0) at this stage I am posting this message now because Schome Park II (the extension to our existing island) is going to materialise any day now ...

In keeping with the overarching objectives of this project (http://schome.open.ac.uk/wikiworks/index.php/Schome_%26_Second_Life) - to use Second Life to extend our thinking about schome - we want to experiment and try out new ideas as we move forward.

In Phase 1 the design and (to a lesser extent) management of Schome Park was staff led.
In Phase 2 the design and management of Schome Park was largely student led.
In Phase 3 we are planning to merge these two models - with students being given even greater control over Schome Park I (the current sim) and staff being given greater control over Schome Park II (the extension sim).

So in terms of thinking about the design of the physical spaces Schome Park I will be being redesigned by students and Schome Park II will be being designed by staff.

As you know I think we should be focussing on processes at the moment - a key one being the management of the redesign to ensure that all members of the community (including folk who will be joining the community at the start of Phase 3) have a say in the process/design. My perception is that at the moment a very small number of 'old hands' dominate the planning decision making - which wouldn't be a problem except that my perception is that this is to the almost total exclusion of everyone else. I think we need to resolve this and put in place a more egalitarian planning process before we get too far down the road of thinking about the actual physical design of Schome Park I.

Exciting times ...


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Topper Schomer on December 01, 2007, 01:05:21 PM
Can I ask for some nice water on SPII (new space) please peter ::)

Topper


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Decimus Schomer on December 01, 2007, 01:20:52 PM
Schome Park II (the extension to our existing island) is going to materialise any day now ...
It already has done, but you can't go onto the new bit of land

And the border between the two's pretty obvious, as this screenshot shows:

(http://schome.open.ac.uk/wikiworks/images/3/3b/New_island.png)

(the new sim is the higher ground)


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Topper Schomer on December 01, 2007, 01:31:15 PM
 :o it overlaps the sandbox!!!!!!

Topper


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Marsbar9 Schomer on December 01, 2007, 03:21:49 PM
Shame I wasn't there to witness it - did it just appear? As in one minute you were looking into the distance, and then BAM and the new one was there?


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Decimus Schomer on December 01, 2007, 03:35:31 PM
Shame I wasn't there to witness it - did it just appear? As in one minute you were looking into the distance, and then BAM and the new one was there?
Nope; I just went towards that edge of the sim and there was the new bit.


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Marsbar9 Schomer on December 01, 2007, 03:38:30 PM
What'd look really good is if the whole of it was left like that, but it was like an infinity pool, water running over the edge :P


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Decimus Schomer on December 01, 2007, 03:42:39 PM
What'd look really good is if the whole of it was left like that, but it was like an infinity pool, water running over the edge :P
That'd be good, but difficult...


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Emodalek Schomer on December 01, 2007, 08:10:19 PM
one thing about teh new land, it would seem that we cant go in but our objects can.

why is this?


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Decimus Schomer on December 01, 2007, 09:57:50 PM
one thing about teh new land, it would seem that we cant go in but our objects can.

why is this?
I'd expect that you wouldn't be able to put objects where you can't go.

One thing we discovered was that only the area below about 100m is restricted (apparently to just Faji and Woop); you can fly above that, though (and, because you get thrown upwards if you fall onto the restricted area, some of us decided to use it as a giant trampoline :P)


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Jpskater777 Schomer on December 01, 2007, 10:55:25 PM
(and, because you get thrown upwards if you fall onto the restricted area, some of us decided to use it as a giant trampoline :P)

lol that was fun
and it shouldnt be able to because when we were bouncing i pulled out the old trusting popgun ( not like i was gonna shoot anyone like faz nooooo thats not it  >:D) and the bullets would not appear because it said like it cant because it was a restricted area


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Dudefish Schomer on December 02, 2007, 11:05:13 AM
one thing about teh new land, it would seem that we cant go in but our objects can.

why is this?
I'd expect that you wouldn't be able to put objects where you can't go.

One thing we discovered was that only the area below about 100m is restricted (apparently to just Faji and Woop); you can fly above that, though (and, because you get thrown upwards if you fall onto the restricted area, some of us decided to use it as a giant trampoline :P)

Well I managed to ride my Motorpig into the barrier. The Motorpig is still there but I can't get in :(
I've posted a picture here on the wiki : http://schome.open.ac.uk/wikiworks/index.php/User:Dudefish_Schomer#The_Motorpig


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Dudefish Schomer on December 02, 2007, 11:28:03 AM
one thing about teh new land, it would seem that we cant go in but our objects can.

why is this?
I'd expect that you wouldn't be able to put objects where you can't go.

One thing we discovered was that only the area below about 100m is restricted (apparently to just Faji and Woop); you can fly above that, though (and, because you get thrown upwards if you fall onto the restricted area, some of us decided to use it as a giant trampoline :P)

Well I managed to ride my Motorpig into the barrier. The Motorpig is still there but I can't get in :(
I've posted a picture here on the wiki : http://schome.open.ac.uk/wikiworks/index.php/User:Dudefish_Schomer#The_Motorpig

It's quite fun actually so there are about 7 pigs there now

perhaps more by the time you read this...

pop in world and look at the valley of the pigs :D


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Dudefish Schomer on December 02, 2007, 11:33:08 AM
one thing about teh new land, it would seem that we cant go in but our objects can.

why is this?
I'd expect that you wouldn't be able to put objects where you can't go.

One thing we discovered was that only the area below about 100m is restricted (apparently to just Faji and Woop); you can fly above that, though (and, because you get thrown upwards if you fall onto the restricted area, some of us decided to use it as a giant trampoline :P)

Well I managed to ride my Motorpig into the barrier. The Motorpig is still there but I can't get in :(
I've posted a picture here on the wiki : http://schome.open.ac.uk/wikiworks/index.php/User:Dudefish_Schomer#The_Motorpig

It's quite fun actually so there are about 7 pigs there now

perhaps more by the time you read this...

pop in world and look at the valley of the pigs :D

ok I've driven a giant pig in to end my fun. I don't want to be accused of griefing...but it was all in the interest of testing ;)


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: PeterT on December 02, 2007, 02:55:22 PM
one thing about teh new land, it would seem that we cant go in but our objects can.

why is this?
I'd expect that you wouldn't be able to put objects where you can't go.

One thing we discovered was that only the area below about 100m is restricted (apparently to just Faji and Woop); you can fly above that, though (and, because you get thrown upwards if you fall onto the restricted area, some of us decided to use it as a giant trampoline :P)

Well I managed to ride my Motorpig into the barrier. The Motorpig is still there but I can't get in :(
I've posted a picture here on the wiki : http://schome.open.ac.uk/wikiworks/index.php/User:Dudefish_Schomer#The_Motorpig

It's quite fun actually so there are about 7 pigs there now

perhaps more by the time you read this...

pop in world and look at the valley of the pigs :D

ok I've driven a giant pig in to end my fun. I don't want to be accused of griefing...but it was all in the interest of testing ;)

LOL - maybe the pigs could be scripted to self-destruct after a set time - cos it does look like fun.  >:D


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Dudefish Schomer on December 02, 2007, 03:02:14 PM
hehehe well my idea was a motorpig arena!
self-destrucing pigs would be good. If anyone knows how please tell me :D


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Explo Schomer on December 02, 2007, 04:56:40 PM
All you have to do is select 'temporary' on the object tab in the edit menu-that will make them disappear after a time (and they don't add to the prim count either).


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Baso Schomer on December 12, 2007, 12:57:32 PM
Explo. Theydo. Temporary prims are the same as prims...bar two exceptions.
  • They Self Rid Themselves
  • They come from another sim
Temporary prims come frm a sim thats close..and sim..you effectivly steal their prims for abit then they self delete.......:P
Doesnt anyone read the manual nowerdays?


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Explo Schomer on December 12, 2007, 05:42:43 PM
Well, considering that I dredged that from second hand memory, I'm pretty surprised!


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Baso Schomer on December 13, 2007, 12:59:46 PM
im not going to argue..there isnt a point but i must say..i beg to differ.


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Sgt. Liony on January 03, 2008, 06:19:55 PM
So where can wre get P&P for the extension then? :S


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: PeterT on January 04, 2008, 12:42:33 PM
So where can wre get P&P for the extension then? :S

If you mean - where can you get P&P for building on the new island the answer at the moment is that we envisage that students will take greater control of Schome Park (the original island - which I now wish I had called Schome Park I) and the staff will take greater control of Schome Park II (the new island).

There will be a sandbox on Schome Park II (no planning permission required) - but other than that the expectation is that folk will build on Schome Park rather than Schome Park II - cos we will have fully developed all the bits of Schome Park II other than the sandbox. May not work out like that in the end but that is our original thought ...


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: An¡mus on January 04, 2008, 02:07:22 PM
People aren't going to be happy with that..

I expect peter will be hiding under his desk cowering in no time


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Marsbar9 Schomer on January 04, 2008, 02:08:42 PM
Actually, I like it. I'm guessing SchomePark II will have more strand based builds, or builds which the staff see as good (hence I see it as good) and we'll have to do more problem solving when it comes to building, as we're limited to space.


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: An¡mus on January 04, 2008, 02:12:00 PM

It's good to see your so optimistic.



Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Marsbar9 Schomer on January 04, 2008, 02:20:44 PM
Well I do think that more sessions and a better system for the strands, eg like Schome Park pilot where we had recognised areas and regular sessions for strands will be much better.


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Achilles Schomer on January 04, 2008, 02:28:56 PM
Can we have a preview of some of the builds as they completed

Like the last close?


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Dan on January 04, 2008, 02:46:21 PM
A series of preview days, .ie. screenshots each day, just like before SPii opened is already planned.

Suffice to say there's still a lot to be done  ;)


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: An¡mus on January 04, 2008, 03:00:56 PM

What's the need for so hundreds of metres of space may I ask? Orientation stuff?


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Baso Schomer on January 04, 2008, 10:02:37 PM
Personally i love this idea.
Again i will say i wish we could start from scratch on SP1 however..then we might get somewere (ieitll be easier....no getting rid of things to replace or merge....etc..)

But still/...love this...SP2 is the educational bit, the learning bit, with hopefully interesting experiments etc....and we have a sim of our own for luxuries.
Well thats my best explanantion....i rubbish at portraying emotions in words...always have been.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASe can we have a THS only club house....itd be cool to have that private area..to chill...honest it would....and itd be a reward to the badge if you get my drift.

Im currently working on warp teleportation (intrasim instead of intersim)Sounds relativly easy, i have the scripts..just trying to get them to work  needs the ability to be in the sim.

Honestly we need to rethink everything we have..what its for..are you happy..im gonna try and make one and stik the link somewere....so we get an idea....rate 1-10 ..all that  stuff :P

But im generally happy with this idea :D

!!! PRIVATE THS CLUB HOUSE !!!



Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: PeterT on January 05, 2008, 10:07:48 AM
People aren't going to be happy with that..

I expect peter will be hiding under his desk cowering in no time

I'm not hiding on this one - I think that we need to really shake up the can a bit and make some changes as a result of what happened in Phases 1 and 2 of the project.

I agree with Mars that we need to re-establish strands of activity that have regular planned sessions which utilise the expertise of staff and students. Staff took too much of a back seat in terms of organising activities in Phase 2 IMHO.

I think that we really need to address the way in which planning permission is dealt with - whilst the system used in Phase 2 worked well in terms of restricting the number of prims my belief is that is significantly reduced the number of people involved in building and the amount of experimentation and playful building (which is one of the most effective ways of learning how to build). I think that there is a lot to be said for Baso's suggestion (http://schome.open.ac.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1744.msg38028#msg38028) that we should start from scratch again on Schome Park (the original island) - and perhaps once Phase 3 has been running for a few weeks we should totally wipe and redesign Schome Park.  :o

I think we need to do something radically different to ensure that new folk are welcomed into the community in a way that encourages them to stay and become actively involved - we lost loads of folk in Phase 2 (and the indications seem to be that this is in part due to the ways in which we failed to recognise and/or cater for their needs). This is partly about induction sessions - but is also about the ways in which we interact with each other and with new folk (it is very easy for us to appear to be the in-crowd and I have witnessed occasions when our behaviour has strongly reinforced this without the people concerned being aware of it).

We also need to do something about refocussing our attention on what is being learnt - this links in with the Frameworks for thinking about foci for learning (http://schome.open.ac.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1828.0) and with the Ratings element of the Profile tool (http://profiles.spii.co.uk/) that Kathy has been developing. It also links with the Barnstars initiative (http://schome.open.ac.uk/wikiworks/index.php/Schome_Wiki_and_Forum_Barnstars) (which I think is a really positive an constructive development by the way - nice one Mars, Faz, et al).

So - lots to think about - we need to be bold and be prepared to go back to first principles - remembering that what this is about is trying out ideas to inform what our future education system should be like ...

Now that should stimulate a reaction or two ...  ???


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Marsbar9 Schomer on January 05, 2008, 11:17:24 AM
ooh I'm excited now :P

I just think we should play it by ear for now, see how phase three develops in the first few weeks and build upon that. the Hawaiian Shirts (http://schome.open.ac.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1910.0) are planning on meeting up to discuss the possibility of us running induction sessions - Aston mentioned this as being the more personal approach, showing how we were once in new comers' positions.


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: An¡mus on January 05, 2008, 12:05:09 PM

I don't neccesserily agree with what was said about people being intimidated into not playfully building. A great way to teach important building skills and bond at the same time is to join Yankee and his group or other new avatars, I have been doing this a lot and feel I have made quite a lot of success teaching them all about the properties of path cut, hollow, taper, dimple, twist, radius and so forth and how to use these techniques to create cool objects like half pipes for the skatepark :)


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: KitKatKid Schomer on January 05, 2008, 06:02:28 PM
I remember the lesson you gave me Faz on the last day of SPii. You created like 10 things in as many seconds and then we went through them one by one. Then we made funky retro spinning chairs which you made me sit on :D

I think having a one-to-one tuition with another person is a better way to learn


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Miss. Vibia on January 05, 2008, 07:59:33 PM
Although the problem with this being that everybody has their own strong points- there are people like Faz and Baso who are builders, Dec and others (sorry can't think straight atm!) who script and people like myself and Liony who make clothes.... so it would be problematic doing one-to-one sessions.  :-\


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Achilles Schomer on January 05, 2008, 08:14:12 PM
Tbh I would agree with wiping the island from scratch but we'd need to change drastically or completely remove pp regs

Else its groundhog day  :(

And this we need to plan it completely rather than just building where it takes the fancy
I think the optimism that we'd basically recreate the entirety of SP1 was optimistic at best


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Baso Schomer on January 06, 2008, 11:32:25 AM
Hmm.

Well it was mentioned before ..way before...that we should try and make things more ....organised...as well as creative..(ok i came up with the creative bit :)

So have a newbie area (mentally) where you can play in the sandbox, and you have SS/Scho-op close buy...and a little newbie area.

This time..i suggest we have the meeting area in SP2 (2nd Island)...


But yeah....wipe it..then have meetings in SP2 to decide what we put in SP1


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: KitKatKid Schomer on January 06, 2008, 11:35:19 AM
I agree we should wipe SP1 then discuss what to have on it.

I remember lakes being discussed as well as possible caving systems (i think the caves was your idea baso, correct me if im wrong).


P.S Im now THS so ill be able to come to these meetings! hehe


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Miss. Vibia on January 06, 2008, 12:23:40 PM
We do have some good buildings in SP1 but if some of the purposes of them will be moved to SP2 it may be an idea to wipe it and start again... we can think about what we would want there and it would give people like Baso and Faz something to do!  :D


P.S Im now THS so ill be able to come to these meetings! hehe
Yay! :D


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Sgt. Liony on January 06, 2008, 12:30:38 PM
I think we should be able to keep some things ... and, for example, maybe the Sandbox could intrude a little into the second island to make it a bit larger?


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: An¡mus on January 06, 2008, 01:45:04 PM

I am indifferent as to clear the island or not, but yeah change is welcome.
I would like to remake the classic scho-op if we are to do this.


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Marsbar9 Schomer on January 06, 2008, 01:47:48 PM
 :o

You people shock me - Faz in particular....

Never mind! I don't mind changing it, perhaps to a better layout? And I agree we need to get rid of certain things - ie the Theme Park.


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: KitKatKid Schomer on January 06, 2008, 01:59:35 PM
Mars, the theme park debate has been going on for ages but nothing has ever been done about it. Unless we see some action, nothing will ever be done and we'll end up having no space to move let alone build


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: An¡mus on January 06, 2008, 02:01:29 PM
:o

You people shock me - Faz in particular....

I thought that might shock you.
What I don't think you understood was that it wasn't about winning or ownership


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Marsbar9 Schomer on January 06, 2008, 02:09:05 PM
How dare you :P

I never thought it was about control or ownership - I've never seen it as that, only reason I get annoyed is because few of my designs were ever chosen - there was always a fault with them - although I'm sure someone will point out that constructive criticism is an opportunity to learn...


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: An¡mus on January 06, 2008, 02:16:35 PM

I would like to point out that a constructive criticism is an oppertunity to learn ;)


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: An¡mus on January 06, 2008, 02:18:38 PM

 :o :o oh wow my moderation powers are fixed

*little dance of joy*

Thanks Dr.Twining lol


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Sgt. Liony on January 06, 2008, 02:21:07 PM
Aaaanyhoo :P I agree with whoever said that we should have the original scho-op back again :P Perhaps somewhere near Scholympia (where the old sandbox was, perhaps?) or near the new sandbox?


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Marsbar9 Schomer on January 06, 2008, 03:57:56 PM
If we were to delete everything on SchomePark (original sim) then we'd be losing a lot of builds that can't be linked and lept in one piece.

However, if we were to delete everything and start from scratch, how would we go about it. This is our chance to say what we want, we could collaborate on a design, and ask someone with access to developer to create it for us.


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Baso Schomer on January 06, 2008, 04:21:36 PM
How do you make a town a town?
You have town meetings, decide what you want...decide a suitable place to put it, get an architect to design it, then get someone who can build it to build it. Simple ;)

Btw...just get people who want to back up stuff to back them up....faz and i have backed up SPTC already for example


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Marsbar9 Schomer on January 06, 2008, 04:22:39 PM
It's when it comes to larger builds though.... why I'm going on I don't know, as far as I can remember I only have one build... :P


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Baso Schomer on January 06, 2008, 04:32:06 PM
welll...it inspires us more really when they will be gone..will be creative and want to make a new one...

Ok a suggestion.

We make a board called
Developement Of Schome Park
then some child boards- one for each thing we think we should have...and in those child boards we put ideas, like one thread for design, another for stuff to put in, another for events happening there etc....

The FirstCHild Board Would Be A Poll Of Things to put into our SP1, Like the media hub that we agreed on, the BandPP office, the SS/Scho-Op


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Explo Schomer on January 06, 2008, 05:33:16 PM
I know this debate doesn't particularly fit into this topic, but it could be squeezed in, so ach well. I'd say that rather than agreeing for a certain build to be built by a certain person, we agree on a design, and then anybody, literally anybody who wants to, can edit parts of it or add new bits. Although this is technically the case already, it needs to be emphasised.


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Baso Schomer on January 06, 2008, 06:00:09 PM
definatly...so anyone can build it..add bits but stick to the design unless discussed otherwise..love it..


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Sgt. Liony on January 06, 2008, 06:13:12 PM
Meh. I just wanted to put my castle somewhere :P


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: An¡mus on January 06, 2008, 10:28:23 PM

I don't think bits should be added at random by anybody or it would look a total mess. If people feel the need to add parts to a building I think there should be a poll or discussion.
Me and mars are going to rebuild the classic scho-op in the case that schome park gets nuked, with second steps being the first floor. We've worked it out so it'll be round about an equal build so fingers crossed there shouldn't be any arguments at all.


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Explo Schomer on January 06, 2008, 11:22:27 PM
I don't think bits should be added at random by anybody or it would look a total mess. If people feel the need to add parts to a building I think there should be a poll or discussion.

They would not be added at random-the idea is to decide on a design, and then people build based upon that design. Surely, everyone can give just as good a contribution to the build, and the ideas of lots of people trump by far the ideas of one alone. Recently, building has become the domain of too few people, and collaborative building is preferable by far. As an example, perhaps, look at wikis-each person can bring their own strengths to a build.


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: PeterT on January 07, 2008, 07:29:53 AM
Why not wait and see what is on Schome Park Beta (SPII?!) and then we will be in a much better position to make decisions about SP Alpha (SPI?!).

We also need to bear in mind that the SEGfL folk have set up a treasure hunt thingy to help introduce their new folk to the island and any major changes to the island probably need to wait till after their new folk have arrived (otherwise the whole treasure hunt thingy will have to be redone!).

So no rush - I'm much more interested in the process (how we are going to make decisions, what (if any) planning controls will be in place, who will we ensure new folk (or even folk who have been around for a long time but not been very active) will become more involved (move from the periphery to the centre metaphorically speaking), what strands of activity we are going to develop as being core parts of what goes on each week/month, etc). Until we have made these decisions about systems it is too early to think about specifics like what a particular build should be like or where it should go (IMHO).


Title: Students and teraforming
Post by: PeterT on January 08, 2008, 07:23:32 AM
Some potentially radical thoughts ...

What would happen if
  • students were given the power to teraform on SPalpha?
  • we did away with planning permission and moved to a system based on monitoring usage levels of builds and when we reach a prim count of 12,000 we removed the build that had been used least in the previous x days/weeks?
  • we had a major project in Phase 3 focussed around the total re-design of SPalpha?
  • we divided SPalpha up into 10 parcels and groups of students could 'bid' to have control of one or more parcels linked with a specific project they wanted to do?

PeterT
PS I have broken one of my golden rules of forum discussions - which is that you should only ever put one key idea in each message. I guess that puts the onus on folk who are responding to a bit of this to make it very clear which bit they are responding to ...


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Baso Schomer on January 08, 2008, 09:08:42 AM
petert, i can tell you dont like the new name..(oh how i hate polls)


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Achilles Schomer on January 08, 2008, 11:10:18 AM
  • students were given the power to teraform on SPalpha?
==> can see problems with abuse of that feature

  • we did away with planning permission and moved to a system based on monitoring usage levels of builds and when we reach a prim count of 12,000 we removed the build that had been used least in the previous x days/weeks?
==> won't the last built build have the least usuage, and besides one person could just spend most of their time there to keep their build

  • we had a major project in Phase 3 focussed around the total re-design of SPalpha?
==>completely agree

  • we divided SPalpha up into 10 parcels and groups of students could 'bid' to have control of one or more parcels linked with a specific project they wanted to do?
==>hmm can see problems with the fact that people then argue they own the land and can't build anywhere but sandbox
atm that would be exile for 66% of the community potenally
and also if you mean that people could actually own them then you could get someone being hilarious and transfering their parcel to another account which schome has no control
in short 10% given away for free

[/list]



Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Dan on January 08, 2008, 11:23:18 AM
students were given the power to teraform on SPalpha?
==> can see problems with abuse of that feature

Challenges rather than problems maybe  ;)  Opening up the terraforming brings the freedom for greater student creativity.  That would certainly be a good thing.  I know I'd like to see what happened if terraforming was more accessible.

we did away with planning permission and moved to a system based on monitoring usage levels of builds and when we reach a prim count of 12,000 we removed the build that had been used least in the previous x days/weeks?
==> won't the last built build have the least usuage, and besides one person could just spend most of their time there to keep their build

You raise reasonable concerns Achilles but there are ways of rationalising the underpinning dataset so as not to 'victimise' the most recent build, nor promote the use of 'squatting' to raise popularity.  Merely as an example (I'm not proposing this) you could ignore the most and least frequent visitor to a parcel in order to limit skewing of the figures.  This would counter someone who simply sat in their parcel 24 hours a day to 'fake' high usage.


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Achilles Schomer on January 08, 2008, 11:30:16 AM

we did away with planning permission and moved to a system based on monitoring usage levels of builds and when we reach a prim count of 12,000 we removed the build that had been used least in the previous x days/weeks?
==> won't the last built build have the least usuage, and besides one person could just spend most of their time there to keep their build

You raise reasonable concerns Achilles but there are ways of rationalising the underpinning dataset so as not to 'victimise' the most recent build, nor promote the use of 'squatting' to raise popularity.  Merely as an example (I'm not proposing this) you could ignore the most and least frequent visitor to a parcel in order to limit skewing of the figures.  This would counter someone who simply sat in their parcel 24 hours a day to 'fake' high usage.

we enter the realm of statistics lol
a popular phrase however is coming to mind...

at any rate for it to work the system would have to clear and free from bias


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Baso Schomer on January 08, 2008, 01:13:49 PM
terraforming........howabout a teraforming parcel? so we can only do it there unless we know what we're doing....(so make a Schome Terraformers Group for those who pass the test on being able to do it well) that way we do get to play with terraforming and we dont mess anything up buy doing it incorectly :D


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: KitKatKid Schomer on January 08, 2008, 04:06:10 PM
Or let us terraform in the sandbox?


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Baso Schomer on January 08, 2008, 04:34:23 PM
preceisely....that would be..perfect...but wht do you think of the Teraforming Group (for people who have proved they can do it without messing everything else up?


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: KitKatKid Schomer on January 08, 2008, 04:45:34 PM
Ive never terraformed before so I wouldnt have a clue how to do it!


Title: Re: Students and teraforming
Post by: Marko Schomer on January 08, 2008, 05:07:28 PM
students were given the power to teraform on SPalpha?

This might be interesting. It would allow the environment to be changed to better suit designs, and to allow more varied building ideas. It would certainly allow builds of the naturalist school to be better developed. In addition, it would help the progression of the ideas about ecosystems and geography study which we contemplated at the start of phase 2. If we can terraform, the possibilities for building are greatly increased. The only negative I can see is the possibility for some members of the community experimenting with the terraforming to the detriment of others' projects, and I think this is unlikely to have an effect, as it's harder to casually terraform than to leave inventory objects around. Overall, then, I think the idea's a good one.

we did away with planning permission and moved to a system based on monitoring usage levels of builds and when we reach a prim count of 12,000 we removed the build that had been used least in the previous x days/weeks?

I'm not sure whether this would help. Some builds aren't used very often, or may go for a long time without being used, and yet should still stay, because they may be very useful in future, or may improve the environment of schome park. Also, as far as I know, current usage monitors aren't very reliable, with the times given for the amount of time people have been in schome park varying widely, and even decreasing over time. Because of these two, I can imagine an increase rather than a decrease in the number of arguments over the presence of builds. However, it might be worth a try.

we had a major project in Phase 3 focussed around the total re-design of SPalpha?

That seems a good idea, and might result in a more organised development of the environment.

we divided SPalpha up into 10 parcels and groups of students could 'bid' to have control of one or more parcels linked with a specific project they wanted to do?

I disagree with this idea. Even if groups of students apply, the idea of collective building is still diminished. Also, the distribution of parcels leads to inefficient land distribution, with small builds leaving large amounts of land wasted, and large builds taking up a number of plots. If people have successfully bid for a plot of land, there is a strong tendency towards ideas of ownership, reducing the possibility of plot ownership changing according to need. Ownership of land is a bad idea in real life, and even worse in second life.


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Kathy Schomer on January 08, 2008, 05:28:52 PM
It might be harder to casually terrafprm than to casually rez objects - but it's easier to maliciously terrafprm than to maliciously rez objects, and also untracable. This is because an object that is moved underground by terraforming is automatically returned, thus making builds near the ground unsave. That said, I agree with the idea in principle.

I'm also in favour of anything that reduces the planning permission mess, which I find highly discouraging to building anything.

I'd expand on this, but I'm typing on my phone (which I have pretty much solely for the internet and music playing features, and never call people with) - and the keyboard is tiny, and doesn't really exist anyway. This is also my reason for not quoting.


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Decimus Schomer on January 08, 2008, 05:33:05 PM
It might be harder to casually terrafprm than to casually rez objects - but it's easier to maliciously terrafprm than to maliciously rez objects, and also untracable. This is because an object that is moved underground by terraforming is automatically returned, thus making builds near the ground unsave. That said, I agree with the idea in principle.
I think this problem is why it was suggested that most people are only allowed to terraform the land in a form of 'terraforming sandbox' (which I'd keep separate from the normal sandbox for the reason you just gave), and people who are known to a) be good at terraforming and b) be trustworthy are the only people allowed to terraform anywhere else...


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Explo Schomer on January 08, 2008, 07:08:57 PM
I'm obviously rather biased on the subject of planning permission, but I'll go ahead anyway. I don't think scrapping the planning system entirely would help-instead we can work to improve it. I'll mention once again my confusion at why planning regulations should be seen as so restrictive, in that smaller builds can be made with no need to apply and can be put in the planned gallery. I simply don't understand why large builds are any better than small builds.

The only reason builds take time to go through the process is if there is genuine opposition to them-in which case they must surely be regulated. On the other hand, building should be about learning from the process, rather than in making new buildings, and so it could be argued that quality checks are unnecessary, and gives an advantage to practised builders, victimising those who have the most to gain from building, although this also adds to my confusion on large builds. I must note that it is possible to alter the building process to judge based on the process, rather than on the finished build, though this could well be difficult when the decision is a majority vote.

Another point to make is that the planning process allows us to learn in a different way, about how to compromise, make adjustments, learn from our mistakes, present our case, and so on. Surely it stands us in some stead that we have created this process ourselves, and that it can be constantly improved. On the other hand, if we refused to scrap it without argument, we would not be recognising its faults, and without questioning the status quo, we cannot improve anything, and hence I agree with Marko that we should give a new system a try.

Looking at the proposal directly, I must say I disagree with starting the restrictions only when the count goes above 12,000. We know from the weeks of prim counts that when prim numbers increase, they tend to do so dramatically, and likewise with decreases, and so in the initial rush of building we would end up well higher than 12,000 before we have time to implement the proposal, and this would make it more difficult to bring the number back down again. In short, we would be likely to end up with wild oscillations above and below 12,000, which does not seem to me an efficient system. On the other hand, it is impossible to make accurate predictions on such a complex matter, and so this argument cannot be said to be reliable if a different system, with different stimuli, was used.

My other argument is that it is far easier to prevent a build being built than to get a build removed, and I should know this with a lot of experience. For some more generalised information, look at the effect of the Reviewing Builds II thread, as opposed to the effect of each of the cases where permission has been refused before building started. Denial in the first place also ends up with a lot fewer hard feelings than removing a complete build or merging it, as we can see from the cases of the SO/SS especially, and which I'm sure will be corroborated by anyone who has suffered any of this. It could be argued that it is relatively easy to alter the proposal so building was frozen after x prims used, but it is clear that this is unfair on anyone wishing to build after the limit has been passed, giving an unfair advantage to those first in with the builds, and encouraging building to be rushed like this cannot be viewed as positive. Of course, this counter argument has a lot less evidence for it than the previous one.

Now, on the other proposals, I must first say that I don't think the parcel idea could be reconciled with the changes to planning permission, as, to start, the restriction of plots allocated to certain people is opposed to the free 'build now' principles of regulation only beginning after 12,000 prims. Likewise, the 'bid' would surely take a form not dissimilar to current planning permission, with the disadvantages of the plot system which was argued against here (http://schome.open.ac.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1739.0) and here (http://schome.open.ac.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1720.0). Apart from this, I can only point to Marko's post.

On the principles of terraforming, I think it would overall be beneficial, as the surrounds are extremely important to builds, and terraforming could open a wide range of possibilities in suiting builds to their environment. On the other hand, the risks are not to be underestimated, and it comes down to a matter of trust. I would certainly like to trust everyone with terraforming abilities, but having seen disputes arise, it is a matter that requires much consideration. Mistakes with terraforming can be far more serious than with prims, and so I would agree with the idea of a 'terraforming sandbox' to start with, hoping to give powers to everyone if it seems to be manageable.

Redesigning SPalpha is an idea which I certainly agree with. Hopefully it would give a chance for less experienced builders to take more of a part, and seeing as the process is more important than the result, building anew is far preferable. Of course, it is those who have built the current buildings that stand to lose from a complete redesign, and so I certainly can't cover the full argument.

Anyway, sorry once again for the long post-you may have noticed that I have several hands more than is considered normal :P.


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Topper Schomer on January 08, 2008, 07:11:22 PM
sounds really good maybe only let peeps who bid for the parcels get terraforming rights

Topper


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Achilles Schomer on January 08, 2008, 07:12:50 PM
you typed this in less than 4 minutes?


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Marsbar9 Schomer on January 08, 2008, 07:12:55 PM
I like Peter's ideas - I would go into more detail on my ideas, but can't at the moment  :(


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Explo Schomer on January 08, 2008, 07:18:45 PM
you typed this in less than 4 minutes?

Do you mean my long post?  ???


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Achilles Schomer on January 08, 2008, 07:19:14 PM
indeed


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Explo Schomer on January 08, 2008, 07:21:00 PM
I certainly think I took longer than 4 minutes, it seemed more like 20 minutes, but I wasn't looking at the time when I wrote it. Why do you think I wrote it in so short a time?


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Achilles Schomer on January 08, 2008, 07:22:06 PM
never mind (4 mins gap between post and me seeing it, hilariously *cough* didn't realise that the time is when its finished


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: An¡mus on January 08, 2008, 08:16:22 PM

I don't think we should be given terraforming powers, but should perhaps have a say in how the landscape is shaped although this could cause some arguments. Quite a bit of the park should be flat or reasonably so for buildings which are a key part of the project.
Planning permission is essential for lot placement Peter, your idea is not a bad one but falls to pieces in areas.
Perhaps giving us control of the region so we can make trees and grasses but not terraform would be better, if possible. We could have a competition to say how the redesign looks, so everyone who feels up to it (I would urge everyone) puts forward a design, model, drawing, description or all to how they think it should be terraformed, this can then be altered by people so we can reach an agreeable design.
So to sum up
  • We shouldn't have terraforming powers
  • We should all have a say in how the island will look
  • We should have powers to create trees and grasses
  • We need to keep planning permission, the rules will be open to total change


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Baso Schomer on January 09, 2008, 12:56:34 PM
faz..what do you think of a terraforming sandbox..so we can elarn to do it etc and then a group of people who have proven they can do it?  obvioulsy the test to get in this would be strict, but im thinking, what if you weanted to add an undergroundcave to your build and developer cant come on....call a teraformer? thats us becoming more and more self maintained in my honest opinion.


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Topper Schomer on January 09, 2008, 01:21:16 PM
here here baso

Topper


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Achilles Schomer on January 09, 2008, 03:50:47 PM
from the marina's point of view if we had a large plot of land (not huge but big enough) then we could carve our own minicourses out of it then replace the land when not in use


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Baso Schomer on January 09, 2008, 05:23:48 PM
another example of its pros...and so long as a proved skillful terraformaer can take the orders..it doesnt havemuch cons....you could even stream the commentarie in from schometech if you had a resonable parcel....


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: An¡mus on January 09, 2008, 05:34:00 PM

Okay, I think adding a terraforming sandbox is a good idea, and I can see the pros of your group suggestion and so support it. I think the island should only be altered if agreed through the planning process and if terraforming is missused people should be kicked out of the group without a warning


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Baso Schomer on January 09, 2008, 05:59:19 PM
well naturally.


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Kathy Schomer on January 09, 2008, 06:12:37 PM
You can't tell who terraformed when. Nor can any logging systems do so, since you can terraform from the next sim if you are so inclined.

How would you know who to kick out?


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: An¡mus on January 09, 2008, 06:19:58 PM

...   You could ask them


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Topper Schomer on January 09, 2008, 06:27:19 PM
well if BPS schomer terraormed the sandbox into something unbuildable asking who did it so hey can be kicked out isent going to make BPS admit to it is it ::)

Topper


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Kathy Schomer on January 09, 2008, 06:27:56 PM
"Did you destroy the terraforming?" is unlikely to gain a positive response from someone who is likely to mess the terraforming up in the first place, if they have any interest in not being kicked out.


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: An¡mus on January 09, 2008, 06:31:34 PM

Well I'm kind of counting on them being honest, which most people here are. I don't really see that event happening, why would somebody intentionally do that?


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Topper Schomer on January 09, 2008, 06:32:33 PM
i dont know. pehaps only let HS tacke a terraforming corse...

Topper


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Explo Schomer on January 09, 2008, 07:39:13 PM
I think accidents are far more likely than intentional damage, but equally problematic if you are going to kick someone out of the group for making a mistake.


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Marsbar9 Schomer on January 09, 2008, 07:42:24 PM
If it's a mistake, you should help them, not punish them. This is how people don't want to learn...


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Baso Schomer on January 09, 2008, 10:37:17 PM
i agree...


a. If you get into the terraforming grou - you have proven you can do it and probbably the staff think you are trustworthy.

b.If you do mess up , do long as we can fix it, and you learn form your mistakes, then thats ok...


we dont need terraforming rights to SP2 or SPb as its now called, we dont control that sim, we are more in control of SP1 or SPa


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: PeterT on January 10, 2008, 06:45:36 PM
petert, i can tell you dont like the new name..(oh how i hate polls)

It's true - but you can't always have what you want in life - not even if you are a benign dictator.  :P  ;)


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Kathy Schomer on January 10, 2008, 07:08:27 PM
Actually you can. That's sort of the point of being a benign dictator.

You clearly need to brush up on your dictating skills.


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Miss. Vibia on January 10, 2008, 07:45:57 PM
We've been looking at democracy in World Studies so if you look again at the poll and look at who voted for anything else other than what was chosen there you will find the majority... although if everything worked like that nothing would *ever* get done!  :D


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Explo Schomer on January 10, 2008, 07:48:55 PM
Well, the poll is actually quite odd by democratic standards in that over half of people voting support the chosen option-so a majority in all senses.


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: PeterT on January 10, 2008, 07:59:37 PM
Actually you can. That's sort of the point of being a benign dictator.

You clearly need to brush up on your dictating skills.

 lol lol lol

True - but if I want to maintain the benign element then sometimes I have to agree to do things that the masses seem to want ...  :-\

and of course I don't want any more mutinies!  ;)


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Topper Schomer on January 10, 2008, 08:04:17 PM
viba.... remeber that revolt...

Topper


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Miss. Vibia on January 10, 2008, 08:20:43 PM
He he... was fun while it lasted.... there was a full on battle too... with castle!  :D


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Topper Schomer on January 10, 2008, 08:25:54 PM
why dont we team up and revolt for a democrcy :P lol

Topper


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Miss. Vibia on January 10, 2008, 08:45:38 PM
Oooh... would be interesting....
Well I have plenty of revolutionary knowledge!  :D


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: An¡mus on January 11, 2008, 06:48:02 PM

.. or just fight with popguns  lol


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: PeterT on January 12, 2008, 11:06:54 AM
Or just get back on topic?  ::)


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Baso Schomer on January 12, 2008, 11:15:57 AM
:P


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: An¡mus on January 12, 2008, 11:56:15 AM

why do you always have to say that?


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Baso Schomer on January 12, 2008, 02:25:34 PM
it's his job :P
either that or he's programed to say that :P


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Sgt. Liony on January 12, 2008, 03:25:38 PM
Ranger the Bot ... hmmm :P


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Kathy Schomer on January 12, 2008, 03:30:43 PM
All SL-related bots have to be called *Bot (CopyBot, LandBot, CampBot, StalkBot, etc.)

He can either be RangeBot or NagBot. :P


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: An¡mus on January 12, 2008, 03:32:26 PM

Stayontopicbot? benigndictatorbot? lol


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Kathy Schomer on January 12, 2008, 03:37:50 PM
It has to be a verb. DictateBot would work. :P

I'm going for NagBot, because I can't come up with a good single word verb for StayOnTopicBot. :P


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: An¡mus on January 12, 2008, 04:11:04 PM

 :P He'll have a nag at you for that


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Kathy Schomer on January 12, 2008, 04:16:37 PM
Of course. It's the first three letters of the six letter job title.


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: An¡mus on January 12, 2008, 04:23:25 PM

 :P it also seems unlikely he'll have a bot at you


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Kathy Schomer on January 12, 2008, 04:24:25 PM
This is true.


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: An¡mus on January 12, 2008, 04:42:06 PM

Unless it stands for something like bit of a tantrum


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Kathy Schomer on January 12, 2008, 04:44:23 PM
I can't imagine how "bot" would stand for "tantrum", or any synonym thereof.


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: PeterT on January 12, 2008, 06:34:31 PM
Ok - so my nagging has failed - so what strategy would you recommend to get this topic back on focus?

PeterT aka nagbot (or Refocusbot?)  ::)


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: Topper Schomer on January 12, 2008, 08:38:02 PM
a post with a radical proposal that is on topic...

Topper


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: An¡mus on January 13, 2008, 01:24:52 PM
I would suggest none, if nobody has anything to say on topic then leave us be :-\


Title: Re: Plans for design and management of Schome Park in Phase 3
Post by: PeterT on January 14, 2008, 06:28:14 AM
a post with a radical proposal that is on topic...

Topper

That is a really good strategy - if only I could think of something radical and on topic ...